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Photo by Isak Jenssen

In a Pride month conversation between two of Norway’s finest, girl in red and Sassy 009 strip the artist personas away and chat as Marie Ulven and Sunniva Lindgard. 

The world fell in love with girl in red with the release of her debut single “i wanna be your girlfriend” in 2018, now well past half a billion Spotify streams. Immediately taken by her specificities and lyrical rawness, New York Times writer Jon Caramanica flew over to Norway to curate what could be considered her first dose of major US press. Years later, she is a critical darling with two acclaimed records under her belt: 2021’s if I could make it go quiet and 2024’s I’M DOING IT AGAIN BABY! were invited to open for Taylor Swift on the record-breaking Eras Tour. girlinred has grown and maintained a dedicated fanbase, eagerly hanging onto her diaristic, blunt approach to queer-themed songwriting. 

Derived from a SoundCloud username, Sassy 009 has been gracing audiences with experimental, sensorially stimulating material since the late 2010s. 2021’s Heart Ego laid the foundations for future projects, showcasing similar production elements to later work but is ultimately fronted by softer, more feminine approaches to her vocal style. Comparable to that of, say, Tinashe, Sassy is sufficiently capable of riding a wave with distinct flavor.

Highly praised by critics and fans alike, her latest record Dreamer+ was released this past January. Excellent songs like “Enemy,” “Someone,” “Edges,” and “Tell Me” with Blood Orange best reflect the well-crafted mixture of alternative, electronic, and shoegaze elements, among others, that ultimately make for a comprehensive listen, and one that requires active attention. She alludes to her infatuation with metal music, accurately describing her current soundscape as “thick and smokey.” 

Clocking in at just over an hour, the two creatives sat down for a conversation that was, at times, silly and carefree, though predominantly ultra-personal and nuanced. They allowed for a peek behind the curtain with comprehensive details about their creative processes: the unseen and unheard trials and tribulations of recording, performing as themselves or an artistic persona, touring, and producing any sort of artistic product in a time that neither artistic nor financial security is guaranteed. Fans may be surprised to know of the imposter syndrome and/or the fears that many of their favorite artists consistently live with, though both Marie and Sunniva were candid in not just their explanations of what it is like to encounter those fears in the moment, but of how they overcome them. 

Of course, this writer couldn’t help but smile when the length of the conversation was acknowledged, though he is extremely grateful to have a small part in regulating a thorough and liberating chat between two sensible minds who create music and art with the intention of not just advancing a personal narrative, but to push the sonic and lyrical devices of their genres forward. Not just for themselves, but for young artists around the world with undiscovered skill sets wondering if they, too, have what it takes.

girl in red: Let’s address the elephant in the room. We’re both Norwegian, and we’re just doing this in English to help translate for the OnesToWatch people. 

Sassy 009: So, this is very awkward… 

Yes, it’s very awkward, but I had to think about who would be interesting to talk to, and you’re having a very interesting moment right now in music. We met on a dancefloor last summer, and we’ve been chatting, but we had a breakdown of sorts. I feel like, in a way, you’ve found everything you’ve been searching for, so I feel like you’re one of the coolest ‘artists to watch’ of the whole…movement, of Scandinavian artists… [Begins to speak Scandinavian]. 

[Laughs in agreement and replies in Scandinavian] 

So, that’s why I would like to ask you the first question. 

First of all, thank you so much for this conversation. I feel like we’re always in touch. 

Sassy 009, before it was a “they,” now it’s a “you.” You’ve gone through different phases of Sassy 009…finding yourself as a solo project without the other people. I saw you play in 2018. [Pauses to acknowledge one of her songs playing on the radio] 

First question is very nondescript. It’s just, how are you? 

I feel like I’m doing quite well now, and I’ve been accumulating so many things in my life for years where I’ve felt like I’m just waiting. That’s an existential thing for everyone, but I’m just working on my album, and not having any way to really grasp what that will feel like once it’s out until I’m back playing shows. Now I’m on the other side, and it’s such a relief. It’s always a wheel that needs to roll. But, I can find myself doing nothing. So, on a personal level, I’m fine, but I’m sucked into this other side that I’m still getting used to having music being put out. 

How long have you been in Oslo now? I feel like you’ve been touring a bunch…

I mean, not a bunch, really… 

I feel like you have!!

I feel like YOU have!! 

[Laughs collectively] 

I had a tour in February, yes, in Europe. I feel like tour is just getting started. 

I saw your show here in Oslo. I really enjoyed it… it was SO packed. People were fighting to get closer… 

There’s something about playing in your hometown that is so intimidating. 

You know a lot of those people…since you live here too, it’s more personal. 

Speaking of personal…how are YOU doing? 

I’m doing good. I’m making music. I’m making stuff for my next album…thing…which is still finding itself, whatever that’s going to be. Speaking of Phoebe Bridgers, it’s been six years since she put out music, and sometimes I’m like, “Ok, I don’t need to stress. It’s only been two years since my last album.” So, I’m taking my time with that, and I’m working on a longer piece of music for a museum, but I can’t say much yet. And, I’m going to a writing school for a publishing house, so I’m in a weird place where I’ve been working with long-form stuff. Also, my film is coming out really soon, debuting at Cannes. I’m like, [In a southern accent] “Please Lord, don’t make me suck.” So, I’m nervous about that. And, I’m renovating my apartment that me and my girlfriend got together. My World Cup song with Marstein is coming out. So, I’m doing stuff here and there. Trying to be in tune with myself so that the stuff is coming out is good. 

How do you do that, though? 

Have slow mornings, that’s one thing. Working out three times a week. Eat cottage cheese protein. Girl, hit the protein!! That’s how I stay in tune. That’s how I want to stay TONED! I’m doing ok, you’re doing good, we’re doing it [Laughs]. Ok, so, what are you looking to recently that’s inspired you? What are you gravitating towards that you’re curious about?

I have time to work on new music where mentally I haven’t felt ready for it. I’m tapping back in. I feel like my project has had different chapters. A part of my process now is I’ve been so intimidated by making a record, because of my stress with the last one. It was quite rough at the end, which many artists can relate to. Now, I’m leaning into working on instrumentals. Thick and smokey stuff. In that world, I’m drawn to heavy metal sounds. The darkness. A very specific thing is to make music that is fun and simple and not structured in the pop sense, which is going back to the roots of it. To not have a specific idea. 

Where do you go to work? 

I had a studio, but I don’t have that anymore. I’m in the middle of moving. So, now I’m just making music in bed. I have a few friends I work with. I recently started playing bass in live shows. I’m playing YOUR bass that you gave me eight years ago. I got the pickups fixed and now I’m locked in. Playing the bass felt more doable than the guitar, cause I’m a shitty guitar player. 

I was listening to your album on my way here to lock in, and I feel like the bass sounds are very present. It feels very dark. You already have this mystique, darkness to your music. Do you feel like you gravitate towards those dark sonics? 

I’ve always been drawn to soundscapes that sound somewhere in between the emotions. Ambivalence, nostalgia, melancholy. If you manage to make songs that have that vibe, but are still major chords, it’s even darker. 

It sounds pretty, but it sounds ugly. 

That’s your music too. It’s quite sad, but also easy to relate to. 

I feel like sadness is such an inaccurate word, because it feels so two-dimensional. Those terms feel…not precise, because that makes it more simple than how it feels. Sometimes things feel bigger, but if you say it’s just sadness, it only turns into one thing. That’s what I like about your album. It’s not one thing. It has dynamics to it, which gives it more substance. I think I have layers to my music, too. I never know what to say about my own music… 

We can be so biased, because we never get to listen to our music with fresh ears. That’s something I wish I could do. Hear my music for the first time after it’s been finished. 

An equivalent is that you may not get to listen to it, but you get to experience the excitement of coming up with it. I heard one of my songs on the radio today, and it was my first time hearing it in a long time, because I had such a trauma response to my second album. I connect horrible things to that album. 

How do you feel about performing that live? 

It was really hard playing that live. My first album, it was like, “I’m so depressed… what the hell is life?,” and then the second I was like, “I’m doing it again, baby! I feel like myself again!,” but I didn’t feel like it myself at all. I was doing things to feel absolutely nothing. I’ll be able to play it when I start playing shows again, but not this year, because I don’t have any shows booked. It’s the first time in eight years that I’m not playing shows. Even in 2020 I was playing shows. Now, I’m here, I can make plans. 

Is that a relief? 

It’s a relief, but it’s a concern. 

Being on the other side of that, not having played live for like four years, all of a sudden now I’m doing that which feels strange and unfamiliar. I’ve never properly toured before, then I found myself playing shows and touring… 

Do you like it? 

I actually do like it! I realized during the tour in February that the more tired I was, the better the shows were. Those were the best shows, and it wasn’t necessarily because of that, but now I can relate to what artists say about the tiredness and exhaustion that comes with tour. That’s not the way to go in the long run, but the nature of the approach is that, yes, I put out my debut album, but things cost more, and the illusion of what my project is is being presented as a step into a new chapter. Things are getting bigger, but the reality of what’s happening internally is that it’s still very much holding onto whatever money and things that can help you pursue those opportunities. The illusion is there, but the rest is striving to catch up. That’s stressful, but exciting. 

I relate to that because during the second album campaign, I felt like I had to exceed the expectations of the perceptions. People think because you have x number of listeners, you can just do anything. I spent all my money, and I had the biggest loss on that tour, because I wanted my ambitions to fit, but there’s a discrepancy between your ambitions and where you’re at. People don’t understand that everyone is getting paid, and if you pay people less, you’re a cheapskate. I'm not even getting paid. It’s really hard, wanting to pay people, but… 

Especially being the face of the project, but also relying on many people in order to do what we’re doing. How do you deal with stress? 

Working out has become one way. My baby dog, Luna, who passed away, she was a way to deal with stress. Walking her and having her unconditional love. Running and strength training have helped a lot. Historically, I’m not good at dealing with stress. I worry a lot. In 2024, I was worrying about losing my career, not being relevant, and that stress made everything worse. You’ll start smothering yourself and your project, but now I’m trying to not care as much and be more free. The landscape is moving very quickly. When you do something, it’ll have a longer lasting impact if it’s good. People forget. You can fuck up now and get canceled, but people forget. If you use that to your advantage, instead of being scared, you can know that when you put something out, it can be big again. I feel like I’m just trying to let go. Do you stress a lot? 

I haven’t been aware of how much I’ve been stressing. I had some chest pains, I went to a doctor. It’s my muscles…I’m fucking tight! 

How do you wind down? 

I had my dog until December…she’s with another family now. But that was a grounding thing, for sure. Working out and having those physical experiences is so important, but, also, I’ve been trying to appreciate things more intentionally. Connect with how much work I’m doing all the time, because I have a tendency to feel like I’m not doing anything. Like I’m being lazy, but that’s not true. Do you have your own studio here? 

I have one in my apartment. 

I love having a home studio. Being at home working in the studio and cleaning the kitchen and scrolling on my phone. It’s hard to grasp the amount of work being put in. I find it hard to have a linear day. When do you make music?

I’ve been in the new studio…the big one, because I have multiple projects. 

Do you do that by yourself?

Yeah! I also really love working from home, but I want to make the music-making experience more memorable, and remember that I need to enjoy the process. Maybe I’ll go to Ocean Sound Recordings, or another beautiful location. Changing the environment is so important. I make music here and there, and that’s how it’s always been. I go four months without making anything, and then shit happens and I play something on a synth, and I have a direction. Sometimes, if you start making music, something really fun will come, but you have to put yourself in those situations. I feel like that too…that I don’t work hard enough. But, then I think, “Who am I working less than?” Do I feel like I’m actually being lazy, or am I looking at how other people are being very prolific? Am I looking at pop artists putting out an album a year? Who are we not working enough for? 

Someone please tell us!! [Laughs] We’re deep in the darkness!! That’s part of the illusion everyone is creating. The illusion of ourselves of the album that is coming out. How it feels to work behind the curtains of an illusion. I’m not agreeing with myself, but an illusion can also be a lie. It reminds me of my show at SXSW. All the shows were crazy, but it was one of the most horrible experiences I’ve ever had. It’s a lot of people with their badges. I just wanted to present the illusion of, “I’m the shit,” even though I felt like a piece of shit. Afterwards, I was feeling so fucking weird. I reached a rock bottom of pure emptiness. Then I realized that I just did the biggest lie I’ve ever done. The dream scenario while being onstage is to feel in tune with your music and to feel in tune with whatever you’re selling… 

In a way, it’s like artistic prostitution. It’s a common feeling to feel completely empty after. 

I was very far out of myself. In a way, it’s a very privileged situation to perform live and to feel like you’re in tune, but there are always elements that can take you out of it and change how you’re feeling. 

I played right before Arctic Monkeys one time, and the crowd JUST wants Arctic Monkeys. I wanted to walk offstage, because I felt like I was just killing a part of myself. That felt like the worst side of the scale. When you walk offstage feeling like it gave you nothing, but it took everything. 

That’s a part of me figuring out how this live thing is. I know for a fact that there will be moments in the future like that that I’ll experience. I felt like I was just lying for that half hour, and, on a personal level, that feels fucking weird. Putting on a face like that. What even is a performance? Is it true? 

Even the word performance is implying that you could lie. 

I need to just accept the fact I am, in a way, lying. How do you manage adrenaline once a tour is over? 

I’ve called it touring jetlag. In 2024, I did 70 shows. Big headline shows. You want that high, and nothing compares. I’m so in tune with everyone screaming together. Then you come home and feel meaningless. 

No one tells you how to deal with it, but there are many ways to. I just have phases of things that I’m obsessed with. 

Do you remember what your last obsession was? 

I’ve been obsessed with white formal shoes. Cold white, not the cream white. I haven’t found the right pair. Pointy, with a belt on the side… 

What are your fashion things recently? 

I’ve always been interested in fashion, but have never had much technical knowledge of it. I’ve never stepped into the fashion world intentionally. I’ve just been winging my own taste. Lately, I’ve been very drawn to very fucking comfortable clothes. American, chill, whatever style. I love Prince. Last summer, I had an intense obsession with Italy. The Italian vibe. That’s how to measure if a piece of clothing feels right. Does it feel Italian? No?? Then I’m not having it. I’ve been feeling a bit more chic, but then I always return to my default which is being androgynous.

I had my Italian phase in 2024 when I was touring. I bought a bunch of Gucci loafers. Everything had to be cashmere. Now, I’m in my gritty, branded clothing era, looking a little scruffy. I went too finance bro for a while. 

That’s a very sophisticated, timeless style though… 

It’s timeless, but my thing was that I want to look boring but make cool shit. Sometimes you see people dressed really cool, but their stuff isn’t great. 

That’s part of how we compare ourselves to others. You’re so sensitive to feeling an ick or vibe from anything whether it’s a live performance or a style of clothing. I’m so aware of that in myself too. I don’t want to look too fucking boujee, because then it becomes weird, but I also want to feel like a cool ass person. 

I had to go through this process of not caring if someone gets the ick. I don’t care if someone thinks I’m trying too hard… 

We’re all just trying… 

When did trying stop being cool?? Ok, one final question, because we’ve been talking for an hour, and I feel sorry for these people. What do you want this year to look like, and what do you want for your project now? 

I wouldn’t say that I don’t care about what I’m doing, but I’m trying to put a lot of energy into how I’m feeling. So, I want this to be a year I can look back on and feel like it wasn’t that stressful compared to years before. Ideally, I will feel more connected to my project, which I already feel like I am… 

When we were texting over summer, we were both very disconnected. Now, it feels, from the outside, like you’re more connected.

I’m more aligned with myself. I want to nurture that even more, whatever that means. Taking care of myself physically, mentally, and doing that work. Or, whether it’s connected to playing live again and those things. Just prioritizing my well-being and feeling as connected as possible. There are so many things that can pull you out of it, which I’m becoming even more aware of. Especially when my world is changing. Being back onstage. There are new things that I’m getting used to. I feel like I’m not so unfamiliar with what I’m doing. What about you? 

It’s similar. Not stressing about what the future holds, and staying connected to what I’m making right now. I think it’s coming, and that it feels cool. Giving space for that to exist without smothering it, but also staying connected so that I don’t kill the excitement of every idea. Locking in on the long form writing, and allowing myself to just be a creative. Which, I think I am, and I love making music, but if I’m scared to explore different things like if it’s this museum thing, acting, or writing this “book,” I wanna be fearless and do these things without being like “Oh my god, I’m gonna lose my career.” I think new musical ideas will come from writing about “my book.” [Knocks on wood, literally, with each mention of the “book”] I’m really excited for where you’re heading, excited for new music, to go back and listen to everything you have put out. 

Likewise! 

I mean, you already heard some of it [Referencing tracks played over the radio throughout the conversation]. My best work!!

You have such an amazing catalog. We’ve been around. 

I’m an old roadie!! 

A veteran!!

Ok, so I’m gonna stop the recording and say thank you and best of luck to anyone transcribing this. 

Listen to Sassy 009 and girl in red below: